Finding Yourself in a World That Wants You to Fit In: What Sci-Fi Reveals About Identity and Connection

Award-winning author Christian Hurst on why loneliness is the price of authenticity—and why true connection only happens after you pay it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6r43gHx3dc

You can lose loved ones when you become your true self. Friends might not understand the person you're becoming. Even family can struggle to recognize you. The internet and algorithms have already decided who you are based on your behavior, your clicks, your patterns. So why would anyone choose authenticity over acceptance?

According to Christian Hurst—bestselling author, creative director, and former Mormon turned humanist—it's the only path to real connection. In this KAJ Masterclass LIVE session, Hurst unpacked why storytelling serves as the bridge between isolation and belonging, how sci-fi provides a sandbox for interrogating your identity without judgment, and why the loneliness you feel when being true to yourself is temporary—but the connections that follow are real.

Key Insights

Identity isn't what you collect—it's what remains when everything else is stripped away. Most people build identity from external pieces: job titles, family roles, relationships, possessions. But Hurst argues those are decorations on a foundation that must come from within. When life challenges those external markers—losing a job, relationship changes, questioning beliefs—people break because they built on sand. Your core identity is what survives when the rug gets pulled out from under you.

"When you build your foundation on the expectations of others, that's when you start to cling to things that are dangerous—like absolutism. People say 'I know this will happen' with such certainty, and when it doesn't, it wrecks their world." — Christian Hurst

Growing up Mormon in Harrisburg, Hurst watched people declare absolute certainty about their beliefs every day. When doubt crept in or expectations weren't met, their worlds shattered because certainty—not self-knowledge—was their foundation. He sees the same pattern in modern culture: people clinging to predictions about elections, markets, or outcomes because certainty feels safer than acknowledging they can only truly know what's inside themselves.

Storytelling lets you interrogate yourself without the uncomfortable confrontation. You don't need to sit down and have literal conversations with yourself about who you are. Fiction does that work subconsciously. When Hurst read sci-fi as a kid—Star Trek episodes, classic space operas—the stories asked questions that naturally broke down barriers his parents, church, and society had constructed around acceptable beliefs and behaviors.

This doesn't mean rejecting everything handed to you by family or institutions. It means questioning and picking apart those inherited values to see what actually resonates with your core. Sci-fi creates a safe sandbox where your imagination can explore alternate realities, testing different versions of yourself without real-world consequences. The best stories force you to analyze aspects of yourself you might never consciously examine.

The trap of modern tools: AI and algorithms promise connection but deliver isolation. Technology democratizes everything. AI says you can be an artist without the journey, create beauty without expression. Social media promises connection while delivering endless scrolling. Hurst warns against constructing bubbles of artificial reality where you pretend to control everything. Having extreme wealth or power doesn't buy happiness if you don't know who you are—we watch billionaires embarrass themselves in real time because no amount of money substitutes for authentic self-knowledge.

The real danger? Mistaking entertainment for connection. Scrolling Instagram isn't connecting with people. It's consuming content. True connection requires showing up in physical spaces with emotional presence—whether that's dropping your kid at school or managing people at work. Hurst asks a pointed question: Do you use your sphere of influence to make someone's day heavy or light? That's where real connection happens, not in your feed.

Loneliness is the price of authenticity—but connection is the reward. This forms the thesis of Hurst's debut novel, Lily Starling: The Voyage of the Salamander. The main character loses her memory, stripping away all external identity markers. As she rebuilds understanding of who she is, she experiences profound isolation. Young people especially feel this—tunnel vision that makes darkness feel permanent, sometimes leading to tragedy.

"Yes, it feels very lonely when you are true to yourself. You can lose loved ones, feel isolated. But if you are true to yourself, connection will happen. It's not magic—it's better because it's real." — Christian Hurst

The book starts with Lily explaining this philosophy in first person before the story shifts to third person. Both reader and character enter the narrative at the same point of confusion—neither knowing what's happening. This structure mirrors the actual experience of finding yourself: disorientation, isolation, gradual clarity, and eventually authentic connection with others who see the real you.

Why sci-fi for exploring identity? Hurst deliberately set his story starting in 2010—pre-smartphone era—because he wanted to show a character from our recent past thrust into a future where connection has evolved. Lily brings empathy from our time that future humans have drifted away from. Different species, spaceships, wars, politics—all the trappings of classic space opera—but with modern themes: diverse characters, queer representation, complex morality.

Lily isn't a perfect hero. She helps a kid out of trouble, then immediately steals food because she's hungry. Hurst wanted to show complicated morality—someone who does heroic things but also takes care of herself without moralizing about it. She's emotionally intelligent but deeply flawed, and her mistakes have real consequences throughout the story.

The Sphere of Influence Problem

Modern connectivity creates a paradox. We carry "boxes of doom" in our pockets—constant access to every world problem. Well-meaning people drive themselves into depression trying to change everything because they feel responsible for all suffering they see. This heightened sensitivity to information overwhelms without boundaries.

The solution: Recognize your actual sphere of influence. Who do you encounter dropping kids at school? How do you show up managing people at work? What attitude do you bring to daily interactions? You can't fix global crises from your phone, but you have genuine power to impact the people you physically encounter. Focus there. Use technology for real connection—like this conversation between Pennsylvania and India—not doom scrolling or obsessing over things you cannot change.

Why This Matters Beyond the Story

For young people navigating identity in an algorithmic age, Hurst's message offers a roadmap: expect loneliness when you stop performing for others, but trust that authentic connections will follow. For anyone feeling trapped by expectations—workplace culture, social pressure, family traditions—his work demonstrates how fiction provides safe space to question inherited beliefs without rejecting them entirely.

For leaders and managers, the "sphere of influence" concept reframes responsibility: you can't solve everything, but you profoundly impact how people experience their days. Choose to make them lighter.

What Else We Covered

The full masterclass explored Hurst's 20-year journey developing Lily Starling from concept to bestseller, his transition from Mormonism to humanism, and why he includes diverse and queer characters in classical space opera settings. He also discussed the danger of absolutism—Victor Hugo and Ursula K. Le Guin's shared warning about certainty as humanity's biggest threat—and how that shows up in his fiction.

Hurst explained why the second book shifts into more cinematic sci-fi territory, what Earth looks like in his future timeline (spoiler: not what you'd expect), and how bringing a pre-smartphone perspective into the future creates unique narrative opportunities.

Watch the complete KAJ Masterclass LIVE episode on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6r43gHx3dc

Subscribe to KAJ Masterclass for weekly conversations with creative leaders and experts.

Connect with Christian Hurst: https://www.churstpublishing.com/

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Full Conversation Transcript (Unedited — Shared Exactly as It Happened)

Transcript:

(00:01) [music] [music] Welcome to this very special edition of the KJ Masterclass live the show which ensures that you profit from your time spent here with experts either through their industry insights, information or simply learning from them. And today we have with us Christian Hurst, best-selling award-winning author and creative director with over 15 years of experience in advertising, marketing, and content creation.

(00:53) a lifelong sci science fiction fan, he blends epic adventure, emotional depth, and inclusive world building inspired by classic space uh uh space operas and character-driven storytelling. And so we'll learn from him how stories help us navigate identity, find authentic connection, and protect our empathy in an algorithmic age.

(01:15) will also learn about his journey from Mormonism to humanism and the powerful role of storytelling as a tool for personal survival and growth. Welcome to the show Christian. >> Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. >> You're welcome. Welcome to the show. Welcome to India in this online form Christian and I'm sure not just in India but a lot of people across the globe will benefit from what we are going to talk right now.

(01:40) We'll talk about storytelling. We'll talk about identity. We'll talk about connection. We'll talk about all this. But before that, let's talk a bit about your journey, your background so that people know who they are listening to. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, uh you know, my story sort of starts uh in Harrisburg. I I was a kid.

(02:05) I was a um a Mormon kid growing up in Harrisburg. And um I always felt like kind of an outsider, you know, and uh I think it's it's great that we're talking about storytelling today because that's been something that has been part of my journey my entire life. And um because when you feel like you're kind of on the outside looking in, I think there are two things that are very important with that and that have affected my whole life.

(02:32) One is that um you get a different perspective. So I think that I often saw things in a different way from people which has really benefited my creative career. Um but it also can be incredibly lonely. And so that's another thing that uh I have used stories to fill that sort of void for me and to help me learn about myself and who I am and create that strong sense of self.

(03:01) And so um that's now what I try to do to help other people is to bring those uh stories to them so that they could learn about you know the themselves in that way. So, so that's basically my journey in a nutshell is like I started uh as this kind of like weird geeky kid reading sci-fi, watching sci-fi and then I became you know a I became a graphic designer, I became a writer, I became a a creative director and and uh so that you know it my creativity manifested in in many different ways throughout my life.

(03:41) Absolutely. Absolutely Christian. So to understand better for the audience, how should they understand who is Christian Hurst? What is he trying to do? What is he trying to tell us? >> Yes, that so I think that's a great question because um who is Christian Hurst? I am uh really someone who believes in connection and and I believe that um it is through our connections that we finally will find peace and and our lives and um the ability to connect to the world around you and and to other people.

(04:27) So the the way I talk about it is, you know, when you you have to have this strong sense of self and you have to be able to know who you are and not who other people see you as, you know, because other people come in with a set of expectations and you have to pretty much uh ignore that and and have a sense of who you are inside.

(04:52) And when you have that firm foundation, then you'll be able to approach other people and see them for who they are rather than seeing the negative things bubble up to the top. Because what we do as human beings is we're heavily predisposed to tribalism and to badging into um putting ourselves in these binary groups.

(05:16) And so when you see somebody come at you and they are the other and that's the first thing you see, you're going to immediately approach them with negativity and and you know hate in your heart instead of an open mind and being able to see that because really I think deep down we all know that there's more similarities between people than there are differences.

(05:42) So that's who that's Christian Hurst, you know, that's my approach is compassion first and person first. And uh that's where the humanism element comes in, you know, where I believe in seeing people and meeting them where they are. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Christian, well explained. you know you have written we'll come to your book also Lily Starling series uh young adult sci-fi saga exploring identity connection and the courage to forge your own path so we you see you talk about identity you talk about connection so let's understand

(06:19) this through storytelling what what is it that you want to talk about identity how do you see a uh identity in today's time earlier on identity was you know people uh themselves their family name their individual what they are doing then with the industrialization a lot of people used to think about about the name tag the designation that they had that became an identity even today for many people it remains that way but many people try to are trying to also understand I want to understand how you want to explain people about identity

(06:57) and why are you talking about identity what is it that forces you to talk about it. >> I Yeah, that's a great way to ask that because I think a lot of people see identity as a collection of things, right? So you uh throughout your life you will come into contact with different things. You will have different jobs.

(07:21) You will have different partners in life. You will have kids. you will have, you know, so you it's like you're collecting your identity. Well, I'm a father now, so that's part of my identity. Well, I'm uh a teacher, so that's part of my, you know, and and these things. And when I talk about identity, I want to strip all of that away and talk about really your core of who you are inside because u that's when that's the only thing that's going to get you through when the times get really tough and when you start to question. That's the thing because

(07:59) that's who that's when I know people that they really break and and they really have those dark times is when they start to question the things that they have built their the foundation of their lives on and instead of building that foundation on who they are in their hearts and who they are inside. And so when when you're building your foundation on the expectations of the world or the expectations of others around you, um that's when you start to cling to things that are very dangerous like uh absolutism, which uh my favorite

(08:37) authors of all time, Victor Hugo and Ursula Luin, uh who actually was a big Victor Hugo fan, I found out recently. But um they talk about absolutism a lot and how it's the biggest danger to humanity. And I think um that's you'll see that a lot in my work where it's like the the I used to be a morbid, right? And so growing up in the church, I would see people get up every day and they would say, "I know this.

(09:08) I know that. I know that this is true. I know this and that and the other. I know this is going to happen." Right? and they were so certain and then it didn't happen or something happened to make them doubt and it just wrecked their world, right? Because they were so sure. And we see that all the time right now in the news.

(09:30) It's like uh people saying, "Well, you know what's going to happen in the next election or I know what's going to h you know, I know what's going to happen with such and such corporation or whatever." And they don't know. They, you know, they want to know. They want to believe that they know because it makes them feel better. But you can only know what's in here, you know, and so that has to be your foundation.

(09:53) Otherwise, you're going to constantly have the rug pulled out from under you. And that's the message that I really want to reach young people with in my in my fiction. >> Absolutely. So, how does one find their identity, which is which perhaps many people try to evade it at different points in time. You know, you short circuit it, you sidestep it because uh then the fitment to the real world that is today, you know, that becomes easy.

(10:22) People become something else as the world wants to in an organization. They call it the work culture. You fit into that so-called work culture outside the on the road. You fit into that outside in the society. You fit into that discourse so that you do not stand out or you know be like an outsider or an outcast.

(10:46) In all these molds you just try and fit in and fit in fit in so that you can exist survive. How amidst all these things do I find my identity how do you deal with that? Well, we have to interrogate ourselves to some extent, I think. And uh that's I think storytelling for me has always provided a way to do that without having to, you know, literally sit down and and like have a conversation with myself.

(11:12) But like um when you read uh really good literature, you watch a show that you know means a lot to you or a movie or whatever uh see a piece of art or go to a play or listen to a piece of music that has meaning to you. Um it causes you to analyze things about yourself even subconsciously you know and you know one of growing up I I used to I grew up on sci-fi I grew up on you know watching Star Trek I grew up on reading great sci-fi novels um and I think that the questions that it causes you to ask uh you know it sort of helps you to

(12:00) naturally uh break down some of those those barriers or or break down some of those uh things that people have other people have handed you, right? Because that's what happens is you grow up a certain way and your parents give you a certain set of values and you go to church and and the uh church gives you a certain set of things to believe and uh you yeah you go to work and even at work right they tell you the right right way to do things the best practice of you know doing your job and that kind of thing and so um all of that can have

(12:40) extreme value I'm not saying to throw any of that away or like or you know throw the baby out with the bathwater kind of thing. But you also have to you have to question it. You have to interrogate it. You have to pick it apart. And I think fiction gives us a a window in which to do that. A world a sandbox in which to let the imagination play out these other realities that we can sort of picture ourselves in.

(13:08) >> Absolutely. So living your true identity is that a easy job in today's times of artificial intelligence times of algorithms that you say in these times is it an easy job or is it a difficult job? How is it for you? How do you remain in your true identity? >> Well, here's the trap, right? because you have we see this too is the other extreme where people start to construct this bubble of of a new reality and so like I think that you still have to have a very healthy boundary with fiction and with what is real, right? So um the the

(13:53) point is to identify who you are inside so that you can face the real world. The point is not to identify who you are inside and then pretend that you can change everything so that you create this bubble where everything is exactly the way you want it because nobody has that kind of control, you know.

(14:15) And the people that do have that kind of power and extreme uh wealth, etc., etc., Uh we see how miserable they are because they're always acting out these you know just ridiculous fantasies and and embarrassing themselves in real time for the whole world to see because you know because that kind of power and money that it still can't buy you happiness unless you know who you are inside and so um I think that is a trap especially with the tools that we have the democratization of everything, right? AI is saying that, hey, well, you can be an

(14:54) artist now. You can just dream up whatever the heck you want and poof, it's a reality, right? But without that journey, without the expression of, you know, your soul, the art is meaningless. And so it it doesn't really matter if it's beautiful anyway. If if [clears throat] you never went through the journey, yeah, there's really no point to it.

(15:21) Absolutely. Absolutely. Now let's move on to the second thing that you talk about connection. How should one understand connection? How do you want people to understand the type of connection that you talk about? Because you also talk about identity. If I seek my true identity, I start losing everything around me.

(15:45) I find myself but I lose a lot of things around me. friends. Sometimes family also might find difficult to understand me in that sense because they have known me in a different way. Society might may have know known me differently. Amidst all these things, you know, even the internet knows me differently. Uh you know algorithms know me differently.

(16:07) >> Yeah. >> When I find that identity then who I do connect with? Do I connect with myself? Who are it or do you talk about connection with others? What is my strongest point here? What is it that real connection means then? I want to understand it from your point of view Christian. >> Absolutely.

(16:32) And you know if you read my book so this my book my debut novel is Lily Starling the voyage of the salamander right and it's something I've been noodling since I was like 19 honestly. So, like 20 years and um I finally am getting around to getting it published and and hey, people like it. It's great. It's a bestseller now. And it's uh you know, it's been this whole journey for me.

(16:58) I'm so excited to share it with more people. But in the very first part of the book, I outline exactly what you just talked about in a monologue that uh Lily gives in the introduction where she starts the story and or it's right before the story, but she talks about how um what I was just talking about how the loneliness is a powerful thing that loneliness uh can make you feel like you're trapped in a cage kind of thing.

(17:32) And that the uh that again be finding yourself and being true to who you are and understanding your identity. That is what can get you through that dark time. And that the connection will happen down the road. And you just that's the part that you have to have faith in. and and that's when you start to see the edges of the cage is after you learn who you are.

(18:01) But true connection can only happen after that. And so the that's sort of the thesis of the book. It's just like said there right played at the very beginning uh in in the car main character's own words and then you go into the story is written in the third person. So, it's it's kind of like a a break, you know, it starts with her in the first person and then it switches and the reader goes into the book at the same place as the as the main character because she has lost her memory and so the reader does not know what's going on and and the main character does not know

(18:41) what's going on, right? So you're going in exactly with Lily into the story. And so the introduction just gives you a little bit of a hint at this philosophy that, you know, I don't want to hit people over the head with it, but it's like this is something that's very meaningful to me and it's really what I want to pass on to younger people is that yes, it feels very lonely when you are true to yourself.

(19:07) Just like you said, like you can you can lose loved ones, you can uh feel isolated and there and young people especially as you and I know are very susceptible to tunnel vision and this is what even leads to horrible things like suicide like feeling trapped that nothing else but this darkness is ever going to happen. Right? But if you are true to yourself, connection will happen.

(19:37) And that's that's the promise of the book is that it is it is almost like magic. But it like she says in the book, it's like it's not magic. It's better because it's real. That connection will happen if you are true to yourself. >> Absolutely. And so that's why let's come to the book itself. you know what is the you know and to not take away a lot of things from that so that people are more interested in the book just to understand it what is this story about it's about Lily and then you know I want to understand it's a

(20:14) young adult sci-fi saga exploring identity and connection and you also talk about empathy in a sci-fi saga where does this empathy also fitted help us understand in the acrop of the book, your story and then the way you see these things. >> Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, when I was setting out to to lay this out and the to tell the story, um sci-fi has always meant so much to me.

(20:46) But it's what it is is it's a tool for telling whatever kind of story you want because uh you know that's the cool part about science fiction is that you can tell any genre. you can tell um you know any sort of story that you want and put it into sort of a sci-fi uh you know uh setting. And so the story that I wanted to tell was about you know this idea of this character who didn't know who they were literally don't know who they were because she's lost her memory.

(21:25) And you know, I set the whole thing, it starts out on Earth in like the year 2010 um because I wanted it to be pre-smartphone to be honest. But um and and she uh eventually this isn't giving away too much of it. She's whisked away to the future and she's takes part in this sort of like space adventure and has to learn about who she is, but also bringing a perspective from our time to the future.

(21:58) She's able to give them a different kind of empathy that they have maybe drifted away from a little bit. uh in the future. And so I won't give away too much, but like Earth uh which you don't you don't they don't actually go to Earth until the second book, but um the just the culture and everything uh is maybe not what you would expect, you know, in the future. Or maybe it is.

(22:25) Um but it's it's different than the way that we connect to each other now. Uh, and so you have all these different species and different spaceships and you know, wars and politics and everything and it all seems like it could be very similar to our time that there are some important differences. And I think Lily's able to bring a perspective that uh is slightly different because of where she came from and and her background and everything.

(22:54) And it and it's it's interesting too because Lily is a character. Here's where the empathy comes in, right? Because it she's a very emotionally intelligent character. And so the way that I wrote this character is that she is not perfect. She is very flawed and makes a lot of mistakes and those mistakes have actual consequences in the story, too.

(23:22) And um you'll see it from the very beginning of the book. I wrote a scene where she helps this kid out and so she it shows her like hero behavior, right? She's she helps this kid out of a situation and then she immediately thereafter steals food because she's hungry. And so I wanted to show this contrast between like she is doing this the right thing and she has this heroic attitude, but she's also gonna take care of herself and so she's complicated.

(23:54) She's not somebody who's going to like moralize for the sake of it. Um she's still going to take the apple and and you know make sure she has something to eat. So that's the kind of uh complicated you know morality that I put in there. >> Absolutely. Let's understand it from this point of view from the younger young generation point of view that you focus on also that you know empathy and connection remain our strongest tools for personal growth in these times as the way things are moving.

(24:30) How does one ensure that these things are still our you know strongest tool with us? Empathy as well as connection. Because when you talk of empathy, it's about others. When you talk of connection, it is also about us as well as connecting with others. But in real world, humans are moving in their own islands.

(24:53) If you approach too much someone, they may feel you are intruding into their space. If you don't, then you are not doing justice with your own empathy. How does one, you know, manage all these things in the way we are moving towards the future. How do you see that? >> I think that we have to understand that there are limitations to our own personal sphere of influence because if you don't set boundaries for yourself and and uh you'll drive yourself crazy, right? I I know I have a lot of well-meaning friends who are just depressed because they they want to

(25:35) change the world, which is great, but they they get overwhelmed because they feel like everything has to change, you know, or they have to be responsible for every single change. Uh and so they it they they don't know where to begin because it's obviously overwhelming. And the the thing is we have this heightened uh sensitivity to information, right? Because we carry around these boxes of doom in our pockets where we can constantly hear about all the troubles in the world.

(26:12) And I think that it's funny because we're more connected through electronics than any humans that have ever lived on the planet before. I mean, I'm talking to you in India from Pennsylvania in, you know, the United States and so, um, I think that's really neat and I think it's gives opportunities for connection, but we also can't mistake the technology for connection.

(26:36) And when you're scrolling through Instagram or whatever it is, that's not connection, you know, that's entertainment. And so, we have to um, so that I covered two things really. We have to set boundaries for ourselves or we'll drive ourselves crazy, right? We have to say, "Here are my little spheres of influence.

(26:55) Here are the the people that I come into contact with when I go drop my son off for school every day. You know, these are the people I see. What kind of a attitude am I going to bring? What kind of a connection am I going to, you know, contribute to their day when I come into contact with them?" you know, when I am, you know, man managing people at work, um, how do I, you know, do I have the power essentially to make their day heavy or light as, uh, Charles Dixon's put it, you know, I have the the the influence over them, to make I could

(27:37) make them have just the shittiest day if, excuse me, but the just the, you know, crummiest day if I wanted to or I could make them feel really good about themselves. So, how do I choose to use the sphere of influence that I do have, you know? So that's that's the one thing and and the other thing is uh to keep in mind that even though we have the capability for connection that we have to take advantage of it in meaningful ways like you and me talking right now uh instead of just doom scrolling or like getting caught up in things that we

(28:15) can't change, things that we can't fix. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So in a nutshell, what is it that you want to tell the world? Again, after all this discussion, in a nutshell, what is it? What is it that you want to tell the world about your book? Why should they they should get the book? And it looks like you are focusing on the young generation is it is it that the you know other generations are of no use or the or or or you have a particular uh thing to take tell them also.

(28:48) Well, my hope is that it has some broad appeal. So, I I think that uh in addition to reaching the youth, which I would like to do, I have uh a significant portion of the readers are not uh young in age, but probably young in heart. But, um I think that the messages are important for everybody. the way that I present them because a lot of the characters are younger.

(29:19) Uh I'm hoping that it will reach younger people uh just the way that I present it. But I think that the message is universal. I think that if I could ask people that if I could tell people like a just a real short pitch for why they should get the book and what makes it different, it is that I think it's a little different because I want to present a fun old-fashioned space adventure but in a modern way including, you know, queer characters, diversity, uh, you know, and themes of identity and and connection that, uh, apply to the

(30:07) modern world that you probably wouldn't read exactly that in like a book, you know, that I I don't think it's been done exactly in this way before. So, I use a lot of classical pros. I I use a lot of uh you know genre type uh work and and the and then in the second book we get into more of like cinematic uh sci-fi but um but very modern themes and and focusing around, you know, modern more modern characters and having a female lead and having queer characters and that Wonderful, wonderful. There's so much to

(30:50) learn about all this from you, Christian. And I'm sure a lot of people uh would want to connect with you, learn more from you, about you, about your story, and also want to get hold of this book. And since it's a series, perhaps more more many more books will come. What's the best way for them to do so? The best way to find me is um well, you can just Google me or you can put in uh on Instagram or Tik Tok.

(31:22) Uh it's at seaurst publishing. Um it's you can find all my socials on uh Lily Starlingbook.com or just look up Lily Starling on Amazon. Um I'm pretty easy to find to be honest. Absolutely. Absolutely. With this, it's a wrap on this very special edition of the KJ Masterclass Live. Thank you so much indeed for joining us.

(31:49) >> Thank you. >> [music]